Episode 8: Victim, Victor, Vessel

How the Drama Triangle Hijacks Your Life, and How to Get Your Power Back

Most people don’t realize they’re in the drama triangle until they’re exhausted.

They think they’re just “having a hard week.” Or dealing with a difficult boss. Or navigating a complicated relationship. Or trying to survive a season that keeps throwing punches.

But underneath the surface, there’s often a pattern running the whole show.

It’s the drama triangle.

And it’s one of the most addictive psychological dynamics on the planet.

In this episode of The Executive and the Mystic, Fred LeFranc and Kristina Wiltsee break down the three classic roles, Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer, and then introduce a deeper progression that helps people actually grow out of it:

Victim → Victor → Vessel

Not as a cute self-help slogan.

As a real framework for leadership, maturity, emotional power, and peace.

The Drama Triangle. Why it’s so sticky

The drama triangle was originally developed by Dr. Stephen Karpman in the 1970s. It describes a looping dynamic where people unconsciously rotate through three roles:

• Victim: powerless, wronged, helpless

• Persecutor: blaming, attacking, dominating

• Rescuer: saving, fixing, over-functioning

Here’s the twist that surprises most people:

These roles are not fixed.

People switch constantly. Sometimes in the same conversation.

Kristina shares that when she first learned the model, she assumed, “Victims are always victims, persecutors are always persecutors.” But the reality is messier.

A persecutor in one context can be a victim in another.

A rescuer can become a persecutor the second they don’t feel appreciated.

And a victim can flip the entire room into rescuing them, without realizing they’re doing it.

This is why it’s so hard to spot. It feels like reality.

But it’s a role-play running on autopilot.

What Victim energy actually looks like

There’s a version of victimhood that’s obvious. The person who tells the same sob story repeatedly. Not because they need support, but because the story has become a strategy.

They gain:

• attention

• sympathy

• energy

• resources

• protection from accountability

Kristina is clear here. Sometimes bad things really do happen. Support is real and needed. This isn’t about shaming pain.

This is about the difference between being harmed and building an identity around helplessness.

Fred describes the emotional mechanics of victimhood as:

• “Woe is me.”

• “Nothing ever works out for me.”

• “Other people are special, I’m not.”

• “Someone did this to me.”

The core issue is power.

Victimhood externalizes power.

It makes your life dependent on someone else changing first.

And in business, Fred points out something leaders often avoid saying out loud:

Victimhood shows up in companies too.

“Tariffs.”

“Inflation.”

“The competition.”

“The economy.”

“The market.”

Yes, those things are real. But the mindset matters.

It’s not what happens. It’s what you do about it.

Why everyone secretly wants to be the Victim

This is the part that makes people uncomfortable.

Kristina says it plainly.

Everybody wants the Victim position.

Because in that role:

• you don’t have to do anything

• you aren’t responsible

• you aren’t accountable

• you get attention

• you get emotional leverage

It’s the ultimate “I don’t have to grow up right now” loophole.

And it’s why the drama triangle is addictive. It rewards helplessness.

Even rescuers, the “good guys,” can be addicted to the triangle.

Rescuing gives them identity, purpose, superiority, control, and emotional payoff.

Fred jokes about it, but he’s not kidding:

“Leave your crucifix in the garage.”

The big lie. “That’s just who I am.”

One of the most useful reframes in the episode is this:

Victim, persecutor, and rescuer are not personalities. They’re positions.

Kristina gives a simple example:

If she says, “Fred, I hate that sweater.”

Fred can respond from victimhood:

“I didn’t pick it.”

“Someone made me wear it.”

“I was forced.”

No responsibility. No agency. Just deflection.

But the roles can shift instantly. Someone else can jump in to rescue. Someone else can persecute. And suddenly everyone is rotating.

That’s why the drama triangle isn’t about “bad people.”

It’s about unconscious roles.

The language test. Victimhood reveals itself in words

One of the strongest practical tools in the conversation is simple:

Listen to your language.

Fred says your words will reveal your position.

Are you speaking from:

• weakness and powerlessness

  or

• strength and ownership?

Kristina adds a useful distinction from linguistic theory:

• Assertion: “I’m in a hole because you pushed me.”

• Declaration: “I’m in a hole.”

Assertion often hands power away.

Declaration brings power back.

This is not about denying reality. It’s about choosing the stance that gives you leverage.

Because if you’re responsible, you can act.

If you’re powerless, you can only wait.

Victim → Victor

The moment you stop picking up the rope

Fred shares a truth that hits hard if you’ve lived it:

You can spend your life in opposition to your parents, your boss, your past, your circumstances, and still be emotionally attached to the very thing you claim you’ve outgrown.

His lesson is clean:

Don’t pick up the rope.

Meaning, don’t engage the drama.

Because the drama triangle doesn’t resolve problems.

It keeps them alive.

Becoming the Victor is the shift from:

• “This is happening to me”

  to

• “This is happening, now what do I do?”

It’s not instant. It’s a process. Fred emphasizes this.

You can have the realization in a moment.

But the nervous system takes time to rewire.

So if you’re moving out of victimhood, be kind to yourself.

You’re breaking an addiction.

Kristina describes it exactly like that. A hit.

A hit of blame.

A hit of self-pity.

A hit of righteous anger.

And she shares something brutally honest: when she stopped passing the pain onto others, she felt physical pain in her chest. Her body had to metabolize responsibility.

Her practice was simple.

She went for a walk.

She felt it.

She didn’t discharge it onto someone else.

And eventually, the pain dissipated.

That’s adulthood.

Not polished. Not pretty. But real.

DARVO. The Victim flip that wrecks relationships

Kristina names a classic pattern that shows up everywhere:

DARVO

Deny. Attack. Reverse Victim and Offender.

It’s the move where someone gets called out, then instantly turns the other person into the aggressor.

Example:

You say, “That hurt my feelings.”

They respond, “I can’t believe you’re talking to me like this.”

Now you’re the villain. They’re the victim.

It’s a fast swap.

And it keeps accountability impossible.

The Empowerment Dynamic

The upgrade that actually changes your life

Fred introduces the model that flips the drama triangle into something functional. This comes from David Emerald’s work, The Empowerment Dynamic.

Instead of:

• Victim

• Persecutor

• Rescuer

You move into:

• Creator (instead of Victim)

• Challenger (instead of Persecutor)

• Coach (instead of Rescuer)

This is the grown-up triangle.

1) Victim → Creator

The Creator says:

“I accept responsibility.”

“I make choices.”

“I can build something new.”

That’s Victor energy.

It’s self-authorship.

2) Persecutor → Challenger

The Challenger doesn’t shame you.

They don’t attack you.

They don’t need to be right.

They ask questions that wake you up.

Instead of: “You’re stupid.”

It becomes: “I think you’re capable of more.”

That’s not softness. That’s leadership.

3) Rescuer → Coach

The Coach supports sovereignty.

Kristina gives the cleanest image:

Rescuer jumps into shark-infested waters with a life preserver.

Coach throws the life preserver in and helps you reach it.

If you’ve ever “saved” someone and then resented them for needing you, you already know why this matters.

Rescuing isn’t love. It’s control wearing a halo.

Victor → Vessel

The quiet power of giving without attachment

The Vessel stage is not “I’m enlightened now.”

It’s not ego. It’s not superiority. It’s not savior behavior.

Fred describes the Vessel as someone who has lived enough life, integrated enough pain, and developed enough humility that they can give freely without needing anything back.

Not praise.

Not validation.

Not control.

Not gratitude as payment.

Just presence. Wisdom. Questions. Support.

He describes the people he trusts most as:

Quiet.

Self-assured.

Soft-spoken.

Magnetic.

Humble.

Not Moses with stone tablets.

Just humans who’ve metabolized reality.

Kristina offers a metaphor I love because it’s both mystical and practical:

• The Victim is a seedling in the desert, desperate for rain.

• The Victor finds the underground aquifer and begins to thrive.

• The Vessel becomes the tree that creates shade for others.

Not because it’s trying to rescue.

Because it’s fully living its nature.

And that fullness becomes nourishment.

Gratitude. The emotional fuel that moves you through all stages

If there’s one thing this episode lands on hard, it’s gratitude.

Fred calls it one of the most powerful emotions he’s ever discovered, right up there with love.

Not gratitude as a performance.

Not toxic positivity.

Not “be grateful and shut up.”

Gratitude as power.

Gratitude in victimhood helps you realize you have more than you thought.

Gratitude in victorhood becomes intentional, even future-oriented.

Gratitude in vesselhood becomes contagious, it strengthens character and generosity.

Kristina calls gratitude:

The great lubricant of life.

A currency of love.

A channel-opener.

And she adds a mature nuance.

Frequency talk can get weaponized.

People use it to feel superior or avoid others.

But gratitude, practiced cleanly, changes the level you operate at.

Not by making you better than anyone.

By making you less reactive, less attached, more available to life.

The final truth. Life doesn’t get easier. You get freer.

Fred says it straight:

Life doesn’t necessarily get easier.

You just stop attaching to outcomes so hard.

That attachment is what creates stress.

That attachment is what creates suffering.

When you accept that challenges are part of the deal, you stop resisting reality. You stop paddling upstream.

You start moving with the current.

You start steering instead of fighting.

And that’s when life begins to feel like flow.

A simple self-check for today

If you want to use this framework immediately, ask yourself:

1) What role am I playing right now?

Victim, persecutor, rescuer?

2) What would the empowered version of this look like?

Creator, challenger, coach?

3) Am I about to pick up the rope?

If yes, pause.

4) What would a Vessel do here?

Not a savior. Not a martyr. A grounded human with clean energy.

Closing

Victimhood is not a moral failure. It’s a nervous system pattern.

Victory isn’t domination. It’s ownership.

Vesselhood isn’t perfection. It’s service without attachment.

And the drama triangle?

It’s optional.

Once you can see it, you can stop feeding it.

And that is the beginning of a different life.